MED Remove NPC stun from GM Flamethrower

[Jack]

Your In-Game Name: Jack

Suggestion: Remove the flamethrower's ability to stun NPC's

Addons Needed (workshop link): None

Reason: Right now GM rambo into breaches like they don't value their lives AND breaches are being done too quickly leading to events ending too fast. With this, it'll not only remove the ramboing problem but also make breaches take longer + be more like RP. You wouldn't run alone into a room filled with 10+ droids, use your flamethrower, then leave 2 sec later alive.​

 

[Matty]

Just remove the flamer at that point whole point of the flamer is to stun lock so breaches are easy to push in rather than being in a choke all the breach

Instead of going to the direct approach of nerfing it, Do what you are meant to do as staff and Enforce rules. If they clearly rambo and don't value their lives than its a no intention to RP

 

[Jack]

Instead of going to the direct approach of nerfing it, Do what you are meant to do as staff and Enforce rules. If they clearly rambo and don't value their lives than its a no intention to RP

Sir yes sir! I will be warning everyone that does it from now on!

 

[Tom]

I think this could be easily avoided by enforcing Rambo rules same way Jedi have them, they clearly got a bit confident cause they had broken models before so they could avoid 60% of the damage they took but now they are unable to just rush in randomly without strategy so it would be smarter to first develop a rule about it before making a change that would be very drastic to the spec.

 

[Matty]

Sir yes sir! I will be warning everyone that does it from now on!

Its your job to do it bozo, people break the rules either tell em off or just warn them use common sense

 

[MrHarkins]

The flamer job IS GM. Nerfing it or removing it will be a massive slap to the face of GM, just like nerfing or removing WPs jetpack. From playing the job for 500 days+ I did not noticed any difference of damage to GM compared to other regiments from the time herm implemented the models until I was promoted to ABG. when I heard about it I thought that it made sense to have some sort of damage resistance since they already have a hard time rushing NPCs on open maps. This was not a issue back then since from my understanding GM ONLY had the flamer to support them. I think with the models being fix this already fixes the flamer issue as it already makes it harder for them to rush NPCs.

Also the flamer is the main driving point to join the reg.

From my perspective, the models gave GM flamers the edge they needed in CQB, now they have been changed it will make it harder for flamers.
The repeater gives GM the rifle they need to combat EEs at CQC.
The flamer is the stable of GM and with the jobs being limited to 4 instead of 6 (due to KU) makes it overall very balanced.

GM which is a close quarters only regiment that has the equipment to do its job. If they do their job well then I really don't see the need to for a nerf.

 

[tomery]

They did this once before and it was fucking stupid. It was one of the main the driving forces behind swapping to DU. If they are dying they are dumb and warn them but don’t remove the stun effect.

 

[Lexi]

The flamer does pretty much no damage, it's why we don't use it against EEs. If it's nerfed this hard it will literally be useless. It's the reason why we don't use our incendiary grenades, they do one damage per tick (same as the flamer's flames) and therefore have no place in combat other than for a bit of fun. The only way that flamethrowers do any sort of decent damage is holding left click down on one droid and it still takes longer than near any other gun on the server.

If you want to nerf flamethrowers a bit, as OD you can restrict when we can use them for whatever reason which has been done a bit recently, and as a fleet captain you should be able to arrange this with your fleet. On the staff side of things, any relatively medium to large sized area, or even just a long corridor, will make it much more difficult for flamethrowers to be used. Equally you can just chuck bombs or hostages in there which basically forces GM to put their flamers away or risk getting court martialled.

There are many different ways of dealing this issue. Taking away the one thing that makes flamethrowers useful is the most extreme option and in my opinion, not necessary at all.

(As an extra note, the Herm model hitboxes have finally been fixed, so if you are worried about us being too tanky for it then you don't have to anymore!)

 

[BappoNoHacko]

Why not have flamethrowers deal more damage instead of stunning, introducing a risk factor to their use? This way, there's still a viable reason to use them. While they remain effective in clearing the initial part of a hallway, players can't simply walk through a swarm of droids and eliminate them in a matter of seconds. With this adjustment, players can swiftly clear the starting section of a hallway but face the risk of potential harm, preventing them from progressing too easily.

And if you are an EE, and you have a good spot and you have droids around to protect you you feel like you can get some good kill and have some fun, but then GM just flames the droids, and then EE is left alone and gets killed in seconds. That just makes the EE experience even worse.

 

[Lexi]

Why not have flamethrowers deal more damage instead of stunning, introducing a risk factor to their use?

At this point the flamethrower just becomes a knock-off gun. It removes the uniqueness of the flamethrower, and if it does less damage than the TL-50 then as of right now it'll still become useless.

And if you are an EE, and you have a good spot and you have droids around to protect you you feel like you can get some good kill and have some fun, but then GM just flames the droids, and then EE is left alone and gets killed in seconds.

This only really applies to CQC situations. Plus, flametroopers get killed very easily by EEs. If you're far enough away as an EE then flamethrowers aren't a problem, and if you need to be CQC to do the most damage possible then you don't want droids between you and the other players, if they're behind you you should be able to pick off a couple flametroopers relatively easily with the rest of the EEs.

 

[BappoNoHacko]

This only really applies to CQC situations.

Even in the open areas it happens. So in snow sim event I had around 20 droids around me, around the corner and was confident I can get a lot of kills, but flame troopers came and just made the droids useless and then I got killed in seconds (I was an heavy EE). I was only able to use my RPS once and was able to shot with with my gun for a bit before I died just cause the droids around were stunned and couldn't distract the other people.

If you're far enough away as an EE then flamethrowers aren't a problem,

This just applies mostly to Snipers EEs or Jet trooper.

and if you need to be CQC to do the most damage possible then you don't want droids between you and the other players,

You still want droids to be between as they are distractions to the troopers so while they focus on the droids you have a chance to get some kills. In those situations Snipers and RPS exceed the best results, but most of the times it can't happen cause the droids get stunned and killed in seconds so only EEs with RPS or heavy guns have a chance of killing some people. And the sniper EE is just fucked.

if they're behind you you should be able to pick off a couple flametroopers relatively easily with the rest of the EEs.

Most times you wont be able to be behind unless you have a quick way of traversing in open areas. And in indoor places its almost impossible to get behind someone.

 

[MrHarkins]

I also think it would honestly be very counter productive for staff to take time to remove the stun. Fleet and generals have the power to order GM to limit the use of their flamers for any RP related reason. If the said flamers refuse to follow these orders then punishments can be issued.

If staff are really having a difficult time with the flamethrowers I cant see it being impractical for them to ask higher ups to limit their usage for a limited time.

 

[Matty]

Why not have flamethrowers deal more damage instead of stunning, introducing a risk factor to their use? This way, there's still a viable reason to use them. While they remain effective in clearing the initial part of a hallway, players can't simply walk through a swarm of droids and eliminate them in a matter of seconds. With this adjustment, players can swiftly clear the starting section of a hallway but face the risk of potential harm, preventing them from progressing too easily.

And if you are an EE, and you have a good spot and you have droids around to protect you you feel like you can get some good kill and have some fun, but then GM just flames the droids, and then EE is left alone and gets killed in seconds. That just makes the EE experience even worse.

Because its always a cat-and-mouse game between staff and players, the Player gets a buff to Weapon - Staff up the HP + damage on NPCs to deal with it.
No matter what damage you do with the flamer it will always be bad to use since it's going off tick damage + staff HP for NPCs.

 

[Lexi]

Even in the open areas it happens.

Very rarely. If you run at a group of droids in an open area with a flamethrower it is practically a death wish. And if there is an EE in that group of droids you're gonna end up sticking out like a sore thumb too.

This just applies mostly to Snipers EEs or Jet trooper.

Flamethrowers are really short ranged, a heavy or captain can shoot way further than a flamethrower can. It doesn't just apply to snipers or jet troopers. Don't stand two feet in front of the FL as EE and if you see a flametrooper sprinting at you then laser him before he has time to reach you. Flamethrowers are powerful at close range, but anything remotely mid to long range is not even an option for them.

You still want droids to be between as they are distractions to the troopers so while they focus on the droids you have a chance to get some kills. In those situations Snipers and RPS exceed the best results, but most of the times it can't happen cause the droids get stunned and killed in seconds so only EEs with RPS or heavy guns have a chance of killing some people. And the sniper EE is just fucked.

Not wrong at all, but one RPS can take out flametroopers easily, if you're that worried about losing all the NPCs between you and the player then keep an eye out for flametroopers. They only have 400 health while most EEs have over double that. Like I said earlier as well, a flametrooper pushing up a long corridor or an open area into a fuck ton of NPCs is a death wish, I'd be impressed if one flametrooper could push up snow sim bunker by themselves especially through the long corridor.

Most times you wont be able to be behind unless you have a quick way of traversing in open areas. And in indoor places its almost impossible to get behind someone.

Probably badly worded from me here but not what I meant. I was talking more about if the droids are behind you then you can pick off flametroopers before they get close enough to do relative damage.



At the end of the day, an EEs whole job is doomed to fail. A good EE can still get a decent amount of kills and doesn't have to depend on NPCs to defend them. But at some point, the EE will get killed because that's the whole point. The republic wins in 99% of events. It's why I personally don't enjoy playing EE much. But taking the fun out of the base game and our base regiments, removing and nerfing equipment because EEs won't stop crying, will kill the server. It'll take the fun and uniqueness out of our specs and our regiments. I don't see the need to nerf flametroopers to the point of uselessness when there are ways to practically disable flamethrowers like I said before - bombs, hostages, OD simply saying no flamers, etc. You can practically use any reason, if there's any form of plants you can use that if the event host doesn't want flamethrowers to be used. As said before, there are many ways around this that aren't killing GM's best piece of equipment. We're a CQC regiment and we fit that role well.

 

[Roger]

Player experience -> EE experience

go back to forcing regiments/people to be EE's and avoid all these problems

 

[Wolfram]

Flame troopers that are on the front during breaches will 9/10 times die. These are acceptable casualties since clones are expendable. GM are a ruthless and extremely aggressive battalion. Clones have always had the personality trait of no step backwards and are willing to lay their lives for the republic.

While I understand the concerns raised about the aggressive nature of GM and their potential overzealous approach to breaches, I firmly believe that the flamethrower stun is an integral part of our identity and tactical prowess.

consider the importance of realism. GM, by nature, embody ruthlessness and aggression in the service of the Republic. The flamethrower stun fits perfectly with the way GM are portrayed.

The term rambo also is incorrect. Rambo is one guy running into the breach. There is no breach where one GM has run into the breach alone.

 

[Jensen]

Right now GM rambo into breaches like they don't value their lives AND breaches are being done too quickly leading to events ending too fast.​

Maybe this is a sign for staff to do something more creative in events rather than relying on the GM to take a month to set up a breach just to pad out your event time.

I remember when people would complain about breaches taking too long, even when they had the flamer stun, and now that breaches are being done fast, it's a problem.

And if events are being done too fast is a problem. Why have Fleet taken Push leading off 501st and 212th for taking too long? Surely that will drag events out longer, like you want.

 

[KellerSmeller]

Breaches would be alot easier to manage if GM Breach Leads didnt incorporate the entire server into breaches, you melt NPCs and EEs get melted by the 50 dudes waiting to go in.

Sort your breaches out and staff can manage the flamers

 

[KellerSmeller]

This post has been partially accepted by the Admin+ Team

We believe the current affairs of GM, is that they continue to rambo, slash and burn NPCs into the ground and do not value their lives, we (I keller) have tried to speak to GM about these affairs and have been turned away, in the Admin+ it was agreed that we will nerf the GM Flamer.

We will be KEEPING the NPC Stun Lock, however it will only last 5s before the flame will need to be reapplied, allowing NPCs brief windows to shoot back if not properly dealt with, therefor eliminating rambo and NPC stun lock perm


Moved to accepted//keller

 

[Dandy]

Suggestion Update

Since this suggestion has been outstanding for a while, here is a little update.

The Dev Team were struggling to find where about the stun factor was controlled in either the Flamethrower or the Fire Effect. We have since come to the conclusion that the stun effect is being applied by the default IGNITE effect (we should of seen this sooner, but Devs like to look at the harder options first ).
Now we are aware of how the stun effect is being applied, we will be looking into if/how we can add a limit to the effect.
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